Windows 10x just around the corner

#1 · February 13, 2020, 2:45 am

Quote from mazzu001 on February 13, 2020, 2:45 am
Windows 10x OS is slated to release holidays 2020. That's creeping up quickly. SO what does that mean for VNWin users. Window 10x OS is still built to handle 32 bit applications, however the general vibe from Microsoft is that 32 bit application support will eventually go the way of the Dodo. Microsoft Store is still accepting 32 bit applications and they have told me they have no foreseeable plans to excommunicate 32 bit applications from the store. So for the time being we are in the clear.

Windows 10x comes with some very interesting new features like split screen, wonder pad. All of which should be employable by our apps made with VisualNeo Win. Great look at it here . With the sales of Microsofts Surface line of products outselling Apple tablets in recent reports. Our user base is growing.

With that said I want to post some useful links here to help VNWin developers get their applications published on Microsoft Store. App building is still a viable option for an income on the Windows platform. I have succesfully launched applications on Microsoft store over the last year (one of which was made with VNWin) so I know this works. You will need some tools.

Windows App Certification Kit

Desktop App Converter

Application Verifies

1 and 3 come with the Windows SDK (found here) and the Desktop App Converter can be found on the Microsoft Store (here)

If you have an idea for an App, your first step is to go to Microsofts Partner Portal and sign up as a partner. This is pretty painless. The hardest part is entering all your financial information so you can get paid. As it is right now there is no way to build an app with VNWin and incorporate in app ads which is OK because as of June this year Microsoft is discontinuing "in app ad monetization" (Read More Here). But you can still sell your software on the store.

After signing up as a partner you will want to reserve your application name. This is just to be sure its unique in the Microsoft store. It will not check the whole world for that app name so some searching might be necessary on your part here. Once you have reserved your application name in the partner center you will have access to some information you will need later on. Like

Package/Identity/Name

Package/Identity/Publisher

Package/Properties/PublisherDisplayName

Package Family Name (PFN)

Package SID

You will need those when building your appx or MSIX package to submit to the store. There are some great articles to read about getting your application set up in the links above. It seems daunting at first glance but its not all that bad. Because you are not using Visual Studio there are a few extra hoops to jump through. But as of today you can still upload your apps to the Microsoft Store and sell your apps there.

The Desktop app converter must be run as administrator. Be careful not to use spaces in your paths to your exe AND your output folder. I will try to make a video on this in the very near future to walk you through the process. To use this see this page. Understand that you will be using a cmd window for this. You are running Desktop App Converter via a dos window with a long string of parameters.

It is always a good idea to consider your target hardware. If your app will mostly be used by tablet users you can still utilize the "full screen" experience found in your app settings in VisualNeo Win.

VNWin is still a viable option for software development. Updates are desperately needed but it still works. I have sucessfuly published apps and it is lucrative to this day. Happy Neo-ing!!

Windows 10x OS is slated to release holidays 2020. That's creeping up quickly. SO what does that mean for VNWin users. Window 10x OS is still built to handle 32 bit applications, however the general vibe from Microsoft is that 32 bit application support will eventually go the way of the Dodo. Microsoft Store is still accepting 32 bit applications and they have told me they have no foreseeable plans to excommunicate 32 bit applications from the store. So for the time being we are in the clear.

Windows 10x comes with some very interesting new features like split screen, wonder pad. All of which should be employable by our apps made with VisualNeo Win. Great look at it here . With the sales of Microsofts Surface line of products outselling Apple tablets in recent reports. Our user base is growing.

With that said I want to post some useful links here to help VNWin developers get their applications published on Microsoft Store. App building is still a viable option for an income on the Windows platform. I have succesfully launched applications on Microsoft store over the last year (one of which was made with VNWin) so I know this works. You will need some tools.

Windows App Certification Kit
Desktop App Converter
Application Verifies

1 and 3 come with the Windows SDK (found here) and the Desktop App Converter can be found on the Microsoft Store (here)

If you have an idea for an App, your first step is to go to Microsofts Partner Portal and sign up as a partner. This is pretty painless. The hardest part is entering all your financial information so you can get paid. As it is right now there is no way to build an app with VNWin and incorporate in app ads which is OK because as of June this year Microsoft is discontinuing "in app ad monetization" (Read More Here). But you can still sell your software on the store.

After signing up as a partner you will want to reserve your application name. This is just to be sure its unique in the Microsoft store. It will not check the whole world for that app name so some searching might be necessary on your part here. Once you have reserved your application name in the partner center you will have access to some information you will need later on. Like

Package/Identity/Name
Package/Identity/Publisher
Package/Properties/PublisherDisplayName
Package Family Name (PFN)
Package SID

You will need those when building your appx or MSIX package to submit to the store. There are some great articles to read about getting your application set up in the links above. It seems daunting at first glance but its not all that bad. Because you are not using Visual Studio there are a few extra hoops to jump through. But as of today you can still upload your apps to the Microsoft Store and sell your apps there.

The Desktop app converter must be run as administrator. Be careful not to use spaces in your paths to your exe AND your output folder. I will try to make a video on this in the very near future to walk you through the process. To use this see this page. Understand that you will be using a cmd window for this. You are running Desktop App Converter via a dos window with a long string of parameters.

It is always a good idea to consider your target hardware. If your app will mostly be used by tablet users you can still utilize the "full screen" experience found in your app settings in VisualNeo Win.

VNWin is still a viable option for software development. Updates are desperately needed but it still works. I have sucessfuly published apps and it is lucrative to this day. Happy Neo-ing!!

luishp, Vadim and 2 other users have reacted to this post.

#2 · February 13, 2020, 8:53 pm

Matt, thanks so much for the helpful info!

All this is completely new to me!

mazzu001 has reacted to this post.

#3 · February 14, 2020, 2:50 am

It sounds like they're moving toward forcing everything through the app store like Apple? I always considered it an advantage to Windows that software was more freely available. I may have to move to Linux eventually. :)

#4 · February 14, 2020, 6:20 am

Quote from vwatson on February 14, 2020, 2:50 am

It sounds like they're moving toward forcing everything through the app store like Apple? I always considered it an advantage to Windows that software was more freely available. I may have to move to Linux eventually. :)

For developers its important to think like a developer and not a consumer. If you make an app, uploading to a store now gives you visibility to millions of people. From a developers point of view there could not be anything better. Consider you make an app... you have to build a website to sell it, then you have to worry about SEO to get found. That will likely amount to nothing so now you have to pay for advertising your app to get the word out. Advertising can cost thousands upon thousands of dollars and there are no guarantees you'll get a single sale. Then you have to worry about a payment gateway and dealing with the gateways IPNs and build a handler on your site to accept data from the payment gateway. For that you will at east need to know how to program ASP / ADO and HTML. Then you have to build a database of users, you'll need SQL language for this, who have paid for your app. Then you have to procure an accounting back-end to account for revenue lest the IRS come knocking at your door.

The stores take ALL of that heavy lifting off of the app developer. If you think like a consumer then sure app stores are new and somewhat grating. But from a developers standpoint there couldn't possibly be anything better.

#5 · February 14, 2020, 6:29 am

Quote from Vadim on February 13, 2020, 8:53 pm

Matt, thanks so much for the helpful info!

All this is completely new to me!

My pleasure Vadim, I am doing everything I can to encourage developing with VNWin!!

#6 · February 14, 2020, 10:55 am

Thanks @mazzu001 for the info!
I want to publish VisualNEO itself on the Microsoft Store, just need time...
I hope you don't mind if I ask you some questions in case I get lost in the process.
Thanks again!

#7 · February 14, 2020, 11:20 am

Quote from luishp on February 14, 2020, 10:55 am

Thanks @mazzu001 for the info!
I want to publish VisualNEO itself on the Microsoft Store, just need time...
I hope you don't mind if I ask you some questions in case I get lost in the process.
Thanks again!

@luishp

That is very exciting. Yes please do. And I would be very happy to help out in any way possible. To truly make it look as professional as possible you need a lot of graphics. Your store page is like a web page. And professional graphics will set the mood right out of the gate. I would be more than happy to donate as much time as needed. I am pretty handy with graphics. As well I can help get the package ready for certification in Microsoft Store. Please feel free to use me in any capacity you see fit!

This is very exciting. I feel this could REALLY help increase your user base. I am sure you have my email somewhere. Please feel free to email me. Maybe mention me here if you do as you might go to junk and I dont always get to checking all my junk email.

#8 · February 14, 2020, 5:05 pm

Quote from mazzu001 on February 14, 2020, 6:20 am

For developers its important to think like a developer and not a consumer. If you make an app, uploading to a store now gives you visibility to millions of people.

As long as it remains one channel, I don't have a problem with it. I just don't want everyone to be forced to buy all software through the Microsoft store. Competition is healthy, and it's good for developers to have control of their own product. When someone else is making all the rules, you give up a lot of control.

It's not that hard to sell from your own website. The average seller no longer has to worry about merchant accounts, gateways, etc. There are many payment processors that you just enter your info and you're good to go - Square, Stripe, 2Checkout, Paypal etc.

Either way you sell, or both, the key is marketing. Identify your target audience and get the name out there. Your software can get lost in the Microsoft store as well.

I also feel the expectation of price seems to be lower for software in the Microsoft store vs. software sold directly from a website?

#9 · February 14, 2020, 8:48 pm

@mazzu001

Thank you for sharing this non-script-related helpful info that would be of use to anyone wanting to distribute/sell their applications that run under the Windows 10 OS.

Please keep us informed of your progress towards the end goal of landing a spot on the Windows Marketplace.

For all the work @luishp has done to improve VisualNEOWeb, he deserves some free assistance in trying to get the VisualNEO family of products on to the market place. However, I suggest that you offer a chargeable service for the other NEO community members who wish to outsource this aspect of their path to fame and fortune (sic) ... I would be open to an arrangement that encompassed "a percentage of every copy sold".

#10 · February 14, 2020, 11:48 pm

Quote from mazzu001 on February 14, 2020, 11:48 pm
I have built a small app that will help with building the string needed to run DAC to make your appx package. I will attach it as a zip here. Tonight when my son is in bed I will make a tutorial video and post it here as well. For now here is the app to build the string for DAC. Here is how to use it.

The steps are as follows:

Path to install files

Never use a path with spaces. This will cause DAC to throw errors. I use a folder off the root drive like C:\myappfiles. You need to create this folder ahead of time and put all your app files in it.

Put all dependencies in this folder maintaining the heirachy within. If your app needs a file called mydb.mdb and is called via [PubDir]data\mydb.mdb then make sure there is a folder in C:\myappfiles called data with your mydb.mdb file just like it would be represented on your hard drive.

All files and folder inside the C:\myappfiles will be packaged in the appx output

Choose a main executable here. If you have multiple exe's in the root folder they will show up here. You must choose a "main executable" as this is the application that will launch when a user opens your app after downloading from the Microsoft store.

Package Name is information you will have to get from your Microsoft Partner Portal after you create the app in the partner portal (see image below)

Publisher name is also found in the partner portal *IMPORTANT* Do not include the CN= in this box. Copy everything AFTER the = (see image below

Version Number. The appx will compile using any number here like 2.4.2.7 however. If this is your first submission to the app store for this particular app it must be a Major Build version. Like 2.0.0.0 or 1.0.0.0 or 5.0.0.0 the first number doesnt matter but the trailing 3 digits must be zero if this is the first submission.

Output Folder. Like the path to install files this must NOT contain any spaces in the path. Choose carefully

Package display name. This must be exactly the name you reserved when you created the app. If you created an app in the partner portal called Super Calculator then you must enter Super Calculator here

App ID this is a spaceless version of Package Display Name. So the above example you would type SuperCalculator here. If your app name didnt have any spaces in its name then just type the name as is here

View String - This will open a windows where you can copy the string we have built. After you copy the string run DAC (Desktop App Converter) as administrator. You must run as admin.

(Optional) but highly recommended.

Sign - This produces a certificate for you to add to your registry by double clicking it. This enables you to side load your app without changing to dev mode. This will give you the install experience your users will see

Verify - This produces an XML file with a full report of the AppX compile procedure. This will list errors and further steps if neccesary and any warnings (Warnings are not required to fix in order to upload to the store but you would be well advised to look them over and repair them if possible.)

Here is an example of the details from the partner portal. It will look similar to this.

When you are done these steps it should look similar to this: MAKE SURE you have checked AppX in the top right corner.

In the DAC windows (looks like a typical cmd window) paste the string (ctrl + v) and hit enter. If any errors are thrown they will appear in red. Read errors carefully as they contain the answers to fix the problem. Post any issues you run into and I will do my best to help you through them.

The app to build the string is attached

Disclaimer*** DAC is very finicky and even the slightest mistake can throw errors. It may take an hour or two to get everything right, but once you've done it successfully it is much easier the next time. Nothing was cooler than looking at my app on the Microsoft Store. Its a great feeling having an app published. And it adds credibility to your skill set. Being published is no small feat.

I have built a small app that will help with building the string needed to run DAC to make your appx package. I will attach it as a zip here. Tonight when my son is in bed I will make a tutorial video and post it here as well. For now here is the app to build the string for DAC. Here is how to use it.

The steps are as follows:

Path to install files
1. Never use a path with spaces. This will cause DAC to throw errors. I use a folder off the root drive like C:\myappfiles. You need to create this folder ahead of time and put all your app files in it.
2. Put all dependencies in this folder maintaining the heirachy within. If your app needs a file called mydb.mdb and is called via [PubDir]data\mydb.mdb then make sure there is a folder in C:\myappfiles called data with your mydb.mdb file just like it would be represented on your hard drive.
3. All files and folder inside the C:\myappfiles will be packaged in the appx output
Choose a main executable here. If you have multiple exe's in the root folder they will show up here. You must choose a "main executable" as this is the application that will launch when a user opens your app after downloading from the Microsoft store.
Package Name is information you will have to get from your Microsoft Partner Portal after you create the app in the partner portal (see image below)
Publisher name is also found in the partner portal *IMPORTANT* Do not include the CN= in this box. Copy everything AFTER the = (see image below
Version Number. The appx will compile using any number here like 2.4.2.7 however. If this is your first submission to the app store for this particular app it must be a Major Build version. Like 2.0.0.0 or 1.0.0.0 or 5.0.0.0 the first number doesnt matter but the trailing 3 digits must be zero if this is the first submission.
Output Folder. Like the path to install files this must NOT contain any spaces in the path. Choose carefully
Package display name. This must be exactly the name you reserved when you created the app. If you created an app in the partner portal called Super Calculator then you must enter Super Calculator here
App ID this is a spaceless version of Package Display Name. So the above example you would type SuperCalculator here. If your app name didnt have any spaces in its name then just type the name as is here
View String - This will open a windows where you can copy the string we have built. After you copy the string run DAC (Desktop App Converter) as administrator. You must run as admin.
(Optional) but highly recommended.
1. Sign - This produces a certificate for you to add to your registry by double clicking it. This enables you to side load your app without changing to dev mode. This will give you the install experience your users will see
2. Verify - This produces an XML file with a full report of the AppX compile procedure. This will list errors and further steps if neccesary and any warnings (Warnings are not required to fix in order to upload to the store but you would be well advised to look them over and repair them if possible.)

Here is an example of the details from the partner portal. It will look similar to this.

When you are done these steps it should look similar to this: MAKE SURE you have checked AppX in the top right corner.

In the DAC windows (looks like a typical cmd window) paste the string (ctrl + v) and hit enter. If any errors are thrown they will appear in red. Read errors carefully as they contain the answers to fix the problem. Post any issues you run into and I will do my best to help you through them.

The app to build the string is attached

Disclaimer*** DAC is very finicky and even the slightest mistake can throw errors. It may take an hour or two to get everything right, but once you've done it successfully it is much easier the next time. Nothing was cooler than looking at my app on the Microsoft Store. Its a great feeling having an app published. And it adds credibility to your skill set. Being published is no small feat.

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Vadim has reacted to this post.

#11 · February 15, 2020, 12:05 am

Quote from Gaev on February 14, 2020, 8:48 pm

@mazzu001

Thank you for sharing this non-script-related helpful info that would be of use to anyone wanting to distribute/sell their applications that run under the Windows 10 OS.

Please keep us informed of your progress towards the end goal of landing a spot on the Windows Marketplace.

For all the work @luishp has done to improve VisualNEOWeb, he deserves some free assistance in trying to get the VisualNEO family of products on to the market place. However, I suggest that you offer a chargeable service for the other NEO community members who wish to outsource this aspect of their path to fame and fortune (sic) ... I would be open to an arrangement that encompassed "a percentage of every copy sold".

@gaev

I already have a couple of apps published to the Windows Store. One of which was made with VNWin.

I have received so much valuable help from the community, I should already be paying you guys a percentage of anything I make. I cant make plugins (yet) but at least this is something I can contribute. If I was to handle the process in its entirety for a corporation or business perhaps, but I feel I am doing luishp a service by making it as easy as possible for VNWin users to be successful at developing for Windows with VNWin. The better we do, the more people that will become VNWin users. The more users we have the more profit luishp will see. The more profit he sees the more he will be motivated to improve and update VNWin. And that, in the end, is what I am trying to accomplish. It may seem generous, but I am being selfish here. I want VNWin updates!!! And if I can help make VNWin successful so that I will see some updates then

#12 · February 15, 2020, 2:50 pm

@mazzu001 thank you very much!
Looking forward to get into this. I will email you as soon as I start.
Thank you again!

Windows 10x just around the corner - Forum

Windows 10x just around the corner